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Topic: 2014 off-season signings / trades / etc

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2014 off-season signings / trades / etc
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Pan wrote:

It's your fault for waking me up :P


 I'm sorry, I was just procrastinating as I really have to start working on my (very important) report with tomorrow as a deadline cry

@canuck: normally I'm wont to keep it clean here, but I didn't know there's a built in 'dirty-talk-filter'. One can't even quote someone saying s#!t :)



-- Edited by labru on Thursday 3rd of July 2014 03:29:18 AM

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Good piece by Nichols of The6thSens on the same subject. A few gems of this long read.

It is a ridiculous assertion because no fan wants to see the organization spend stupidly or spend for the sake of spending.
Fans simply want reassurance that when the Senators are in a position to be competitive and win, the organization has the ability to use its resources to get that final piece of the puzzle or retain its best young assets when it comes time for them to re-up.

Seriously, how much more can fans take of this organization operating like it cannot stomach the idea of patiently building a winner.

...the current philosophy of trying to contend on a bottom five payroll while obviously not having the financial resources to augment their best offensive talent is a terrible, terrible philosophy.

The ****tiest part for me is that I still believe the Senators can win or at least be better than a bubble team that perennially vies for a playoff spot. I agree with Bryan Murray when he says that the team can win on a budget.

Shrewd doesn’t involve spending 21.7-percent of your salary payroll on the likes of Greening, Michalek, Phillips and Neil.



Pan
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It's your fault for waking me up :P

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Pan wrote:
Kardinal wrote:

I've never understood the concept of "Melnyk is cheap" simply because he's not spending to the hyper-inflated cap due to some large market teams. A hockey team, like any business, should be financially self-sufficient rather than propped up by outside money from the owner's pockets or poached from other related businesses. The building should be self-sufficient as well, and the revenue it generates should go into upkeep and improvements (another thing fans are calling for) rather than going into playing team costs.

If Melnyk doesn't want to dump his own money into the team every year, because it doesn't generate enough revenue to spend to the cap every season, he shouldn't have to. Of course, spending-spending-spending doesn't guarantee success either, but fans like to point at the "obvious fix" to a team's problems, but given some of the UFA signings that have happened yesterday and today, I'm glad it's a team that doesn't spend willy-nilly.


 Somewhat agree, but I feel that the related businesses (especially the building)  are codependent.  Most teams that own their buildings (which tends to be the Canadian markets only, I believe) run the whole package as a business plan. Stating that ALL of the revenues from the TV deal (noting that 50% goes to the players) is a management choice, but to operate on a loss or need a Captial influx annually will lead to a disaster.   BUT, assuming that the hockey team can operate only on ticket sales and concessions is impossible and the building which is huge and used MAYBE 100 days a year cannot be sustainable on its own. The numbers just don't support that. 

Melnyk gets regs the extra bump for owning capital tickets, which is smart by him, and that company also makes  money through sales of 67 tickets, redblacks, fury, concert and other events. I broke down those numbers earlier this season. 

After talking to Ian Mendes on the last show, I also agree that spending to the cap isn't always the answer, but this is all consumer behaviour and marketing.  To me, it seems that Melnyk wants fans to pay for the tickets, merch, concessions now and from there, he'll save money and turn profit to be able to spend in 2-3 years. As a consumer, why would I want to pay $2,500 now for my two seats instead of not buying, watching on TV, or buying game day tickets if the team goes on a streak?  You're offering me a sub par product vs. other teams, and expect me to pay a lot for it?  That's a disconnect for me.  I'm a die hard and I'm questioning this. How does a latent fan feel?

Continuing on that point, I wondered  as to  how the Senators would be able to attract  top talent. They have about $5M  for a player available now, but we got zero new players on July 1. NONE! How do the players who have 29 other teams to choose from see Ottawa as an organization? I don't think it's the city, and fans and media put the same pressure in any town. There's problems with organizational culture, and possibly not ownership, that's the #1 problem right now. 


 Hey Pan, we were working on lengthy answers in the same time



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Kardinal wrote:

I've never understood the concept of "Melnyk is cheap" simply because he's not spending to the hyper-inflated cap due to some large market teams. A hockey team, like any business, should be financially self-sufficient rather than propped up by outside money from the owner's pockets or poached from other related businesses. The building should be self-sufficient as well, and the revenue it generates should go into upkeep and improvements (another thing fans are calling for) rather than going into playing team costs.

If Melnyk doesn't want to dump his own money into the team every year, because it doesn't generate enough revenue to spend to the cap every season, he shouldn't have to. Of course, spending-spending-spending doesn't guarantee success either, but fans like to point at the "obvious fix" to a team's problems, but given some of the UFA signings that have happened yesterday and today, I'm glad it's a team that doesn't spend willy-nilly.


 I don't say he should spend to the cap. But he should spend when necessary (case in point: Alfie). It's true that money doesn't buy you the cup, but I'd dare Melnyk to analyse the cap situations of the last 5 teams to win the cup in the 4-5 years leading up to the win. Not that I have, but I'd bet that none of these were anywhere near the cap floor during that time span. It's all good and nice to be in the top 3 of $/pt, but there's two ways you can reach that figure: by spending very little or by winning a lot of games! Being a perennial efficient middle tier team doesn't cut it. Those extra points that set you apart and make you a contender instead of just a (very) good team will cost you, there's no way around that.

If you look at Pierre's 7 pieces to be a contender, there's no way you can sign those, fill out the roster with depth and be in the bottom half of spending. I'm not saying that the Sens should start spending for the sake of it. Also not that the we're there already. This is a process of a few years, but if we want to be a cup contender in say 3 years, the first signs should be visible now. The problem is that in the first (few) years of a rebuild the results alone would indeed not justify spending a lot. Comparisons on results with cap spending bottom feeders like the Leafs are easily made to account for not spending that much because you are not 'stupid'. There has to be a bigger plan though, including a plan to incrementally spend more. Not for the heck of it, but because you acknowledge  that spending comes with putting the pieces of a contender in place. The year you are a real contender, most of your essential players won't be on the first (or even second) year of their contract.

Players (or at least their agents) know this too and if your team is stuck in a vicious circle with little prospect of breaking out of it (upwards that is), they'll prefer other locations and before you know it you're reputation as a team is down the drain. In my opinion there are a lot of things that should be changed in the front office of this team. Lots of things don't directly involve increased spending, but to a certain extent it has to be part of it! Keeping Melnyk out of the media would help, but isn't the only solution as it's very hard to see how that would substantially contribute to more wins.



Pan
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Kardinal wrote:

I've never understood the concept of "Melnyk is cheap" simply because he's not spending to the hyper-inflated cap due to some large market teams. A hockey team, like any business, should be financially self-sufficient rather than propped up by outside money from the owner's pockets or poached from other related businesses. The building should be self-sufficient as well, and the revenue it generates should go into upkeep and improvements (another thing fans are calling for) rather than going into playing team costs.

If Melnyk doesn't want to dump his own money into the team every year, because it doesn't generate enough revenue to spend to the cap every season, he shouldn't have to. Of course, spending-spending-spending doesn't guarantee success either, but fans like to point at the "obvious fix" to a team's problems, but given some of the UFA signings that have happened yesterday and today, I'm glad it's a team that doesn't spend willy-nilly.


 Somewhat agree, but I feel that the related businesses (especially the building)  are codependent.  Most teams that own their buildings (which tends to be the Canadian markets only, I believe) run the whole package as a business plan. Stating that ALL of the revenues from the TV deal (noting that 50% goes to the players) is a management choice, but to operate on a loss or need a Captial influx annually will lead to a disaster.   BUT, assuming that the hockey team can operate only on ticket sales and concessions is impossible and the building which is huge and used MAYBE 100 days a year cannot be sustainable on its own. The numbers just don't support that. 

Melnyk gets regs the extra bump for owning capital tickets, which is smart by him, and that company also makes  money through sales of 67 tickets, redblacks, fury, concert and other events. I broke down those numbers earlier this season. 

After talking to Ian Mendes on the last show, I also agree that spending to the cap isn't always the answer, but this is all consumer behaviour and marketing.  To me, it seems that Melnyk wants fans to pay for the tickets, merch, concessions now and from there, he'll save money and turn profit to be able to spend in 2-3 years. As a consumer, why would I want to pay $2,500 now for my two seats instead of not buying, watching on TV, or buying game day tickets if the team goes on a streak?  You're offering me a sub par product vs. other teams, and expect me to pay a lot for it?  That's a disconnect for me.  I'm a die hard and I'm questioning this. How does a latent fan feel?

Continuing on that point, I wondered  as to  how the Senators would be able to attract  top talent. They have about $5M  for a player available now, but we got zero new players on July 1. NONE! How do the players who have 29 other teams to choose from see Ottawa as an organization? I don't think it's the city, and fans and media put the same pressure in any town. There's problems with organizational culture, and possibly not ownership, that's the #1 problem right now. 



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There appears to be a rumour that Murray is working on a deal involving a D for a forward. Please don't let it involve either Patrick Wiercioch or Chris Stewart!
I can already see GMTM laughing his a$$ off!

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Pan wrote:
labru wrote:

I saw Benoit is still available as a UFA, give it a shot for 2yrs @1,5M?


 So you want 9 defencemen?


 Nope I want 7, but it's not hard for me to point out a few that can go! Dealt or bought out. 

I'd like to keep: Karlson, Methot, Cowen, Wiercioch, Benoit, Gryba and another signing/dealt for D. Ceci should play in Bingo for another year, although I know some people here wouldn't agree :P



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SensKat wrote:
Kardinal wrote:
Russell wrote:

congrats, Kardinal, on the first, and likely last, ever use of the word "willy-nilly" in the SU forums.


 I'll try to work it in from time to time, just to keep you on your toes. 


 Don't worry, I'll be sure to throw it into a conversation from time to time too.  We may have our first official pet term for the forum.

 

Oh, and Russell.... I know it's hard, but you have to remember that the boys are all grown up now... this isn't the SU forums.


 ah yes, i must learn to let go.



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But if Melnyk were to come out and just tell everybody that he's going to take the extra money that all the new revenue streams are generating and make up for all the losses he's incurred since he's owned the team and once he's back to near even he'll open the check book for quality players but not July 1st overpay guys then I think that would be fine with most fans.

If that's what he's doing he needs to let the fans know. Because now he's got money to spend to not let his best players leave.

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Kardinal wrote:
Russell wrote:

congrats, Kardinal, on the first, and likely last, ever use of the word "willy-nilly" in the SU forums.


 I'll try to work it in from time to time, just to keep you on your toes. 


 Don't worry, I'll be sure to throw it into a conversation from time to time too.  We may have our first official pet term for the forum.

 

Oh, and Russell.... I know it's hard, but you have to remember that the boys are all grown up now... this isn't the SU forums.



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Kardinal wrote:

I've never understood the concept of "Melnyk is cheap" simply because he's not spending to the hyper-inflated cap due to some large market teams. A hockey team, like any business, should be financially self-sufficient rather than propped up by outside money from the owner's pockets or poached from other related businesses. The building should be self-sufficient as well, and the revenue it generates should go into upkeep and improvements (another thing fans are calling for) rather than going into playing team costs.

If Melnyk doesn't want to dump his own money into the team every year, because it doesn't generate enough revenue to spend to the cap every season, he shouldn't have to. Of course, spending-spending-spending doesn't guarantee success either, but fans like to point at the "obvious fix" to a team's problems, but given some of the UFA signings that have happened yesterday and today, I'm glad it's a team that doesn't spend willy-nilly.


Up until this year all that's true. But now he has numerous more revenue streams he's never had before. And he sold those horses.  You were right earlier he needs to quit talking but he does now have money to sign his own Free agents that he and Murray deem worth keeping.  We don't want him signing Pouliot to the stupid contract Edmonton signed him to that's for sure but we do want him to resign Bobby Ryan and his UFA's to be for next year.  He doesn't have an excuse to let any core players walk without compensation.   



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Kardinal wrote:

Do you mean a Green Bay Packers situation? ;)

I don't think Melnyk is the problem; Melnyk talking to the media is the problem. Let the team be run by the professionals who have been hired to do that, and let them speak for the team. I know he doesn't have his horses to talk about anymore, but he needs a separate hobby that he can talk to the media about.


 LOL!!!! That's great Kardinal.  



C3
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And James Gordon putsnthr icing on the cake.

Ottawa Citizen - Sens Image Problem

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No; I think he used to play second base for the Cubs.

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Wasn't Willy-Nilly one of the players the Sens got as part of the Spezza trade?

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I agree C3, that the team needs to use the new local contract, which extends into all the Atlantic provinces as well as parts of Quebec and Northern Ontario, as a stepping stone to getting the team's name out there. Pushing merchandise would be a great way to do that, as it's a second opportunity for eyeballs, but they have to expect it to start slowly and grow, not an landslide of support (unless the team goes 82-0 in the regular season and 16-0 in the playoffs in 2014-2015).

I truly think that one of the best things for the team would be to muzzle the owner. He talks off the cuff, it gets (deliberately or otherwise) misinterpreted, and it just doesn't go well. Waive from the owner's box, but let the team do the talking. Not just to start the season, but for the next three years at least.

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Russell wrote:

congrats, Kardinal, on the first, and likely last, ever use of the word "willy-nilly" in the SU forums.


 I'll try to work it in from time to time, just to keep you on your toes. 



C3
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If he wanted to inspire confidence then, like you said, he needs to get out of the limelight and stop complaining about money. And hire some new PR staff to keep him on point when he does decide to open his mouth.

Has anyone else who's been to a NHL (or any pro league) game be subject to seeing and hearing from the owner during the event twice? Cause I have, and I didn't feel that it actually matched his persona outside of the building.

With TV deals aplenty shouldn't the Sens be more adamant about jumping on this opportunity to create a wider fan base? I've always believed that the Sens were only a small market team because of the people who filled the seats in CTC. But then I had some education on how wrong I was when I started to see Panthers merc in local stores. For some database marketing reason the panthers had decided that there was enough Newfie interest in their team that they were discounting merc so stores would carry it. I have yet to see anything outside a jersey at sportchek and a USB drive at target for Sens related merc anywhere near me. The panthers may be a small market -or an indifferent market it seems- but their front office saw something in their ticket sales that they decided to try and capitalize on and executed it. I doubt it worked, but I don't think it cost the owner or the team any exorbatant amount from their marketing budget either. Small market is only a state of mind.

I also wouldn't want to turn into the pre-cap era flyers or laffs. But if you want the team to be self sufficient and not have to dump your money into it you need to inspire confidence in fans that you are at least working towards improving the team that they love. Cause they are the ones bankrolling that self-sufficiancy.

And of course all this becomes moot if Murray gets the go ahead to do something before next season.


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congrats, Kardinal, on the first, and likely last, ever use of the word "willy-nilly" in the SU forums.

 
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