Alex Trebek passed away this morning. Not sure, but announcing the Sens' 1st 2020 1st round pick might have been his last TV appearance. RIP Alex
tjlincoln said
Oct 8, 2020
Agent Orange wrote:
ShanghaiSenator wrote:
Maybe Duclair just wanted out. Who could blame him?
Likely, but now you've just shown the other RFAs the way to get out of dodge. Has Dorion actually taken anyone to arbitration yet? Hoffman was on Murray's watch no?
But as much as I want to demonize the shady ways the team is being run, in doing the math they will meet the cap floor this year with minimal extensions to:
Tierney (4.5M AAV) - 1/2 years
C. Brown (4.1M/AAV) - 5 years
Murray (6M/AAV) - 3 years
and the rest of the RFAs between 0.875M-1M.
Comes out to 63M on the cap (52M salary)
That's with 12.45M in dead cap (6M actual salary) in Gaborik, Nilsson, the ghost of Bobby Ryan, and the ghost of Dion Phaneuf.
That's a thin line of cap in/cap out for when they try and trade away the extra bodies at the trade deadline this year.
If they overpay those 3 in that salary area this team will never in any you’re lifetimes be worth spit, just listened to several Pittsburgh shows and they are happy that Murray is gone. Appreciative of the 2 Cups but over the past 3 years couldn’t stay healthy or consistent and needed to be pushed to produce when he could get on the ice. He’s 26 but an old injured and not very motivated player in their opinion. “There’s always a sucker that Jim Rutherford finds for these guys who have won Cups” is what one host said. Gudbranson is one of the most overpaid and slowest Defenseman in the league and he was pilloried beyond belief in Vancouver because he can’t play Defense. lol, Murray at 6 will be a disaster and Tierney is a bottom 6 why pay that much? Jeez this is becoming beyond belief.
senior said
Oct 8, 2020
ShanghaiSenator wrote:
Maybe Duclair just wanted out. Who could blame him?
The Sens made Duclair an offer they knew he would never accept. They wanted him out.
Agent Orange said
Oct 8, 2020
ShanghaiSenator wrote:
Maybe Duclair just wanted out. Who could blame him?
Likely, but now you've just shown the other RFAs the way to get out of dodge. Has Dorion actually taken anyone to arbitration yet? Hoffman was on Murray's watch no?
But as much as I want to demonize the shady ways the team is being run, in doing the math they will meet the cap floor this year with minimal extensions to:
Tierney (4.5M AAV) - 1/2 years
C. Brown (4.1M/AAV) - 5 years
Murray (6M/AAV) - 3 years
and the rest of the RFAs between 0.875M-1M.
Comes out to 63M on the cap (52M salary)
That's with 12.45M in dead cap (6M actual salary) in Gaborik, Nilsson, the ghost of Bobby Ryan, and the ghost of Dion Phaneuf.
That's a thin line of cap in/cap out for when they try and trade away the extra bodies at the trade deadline this year.
ShanghaiSenator said
Oct 8, 2020
Maybe Duclair just wanted out. Who could blame him?
Russell said
Oct 7, 2020
Unless they are shedding as much as they can to go poaching or UFA shopping ( unlikely on both counts), this Duclair thing makes no sense to me. Unless there's something we don't know, its just seems stupid.
tjlincoln said
Oct 7, 2020
AO, you bring up great points though and on this I don’t think you are overly cynical. It’s the Melnyk way of doing business. Bettman backing this creep just shows how useless Bettman can be at times. Great points on the overagers too. I really thought they were going to weaponize cap space to take advantage of Cap strapped teams after releasing Ryan and try and really put a good team on the ice. Zaitsev and Zub don’t create a lot of confidence in me. Even though I’m not a fan of the Murray trade and Pittsburgh talk radio is very happy w the return because they’ve lost all confidence he could ever be any good in Pittsburgh again. I hope he does bounce back but that Zaitsev Zub combo all pops back up in my head.
-- Edited by tjlincoln on Wednesday 7th of October 2020 11:04:49 PM
-- Edited by tjlincoln on Wednesday 7th of October 2020 11:05:09 PM
Russell said
Oct 7, 2020
Agent Orange wrote:
There’s your boom or bust sniper. Big boy with a hammer.
Likely they reached for him as a result of the Murray trade.
"Big boy with a hammer."
You just know she said that.
Agent Orange said
Oct 7, 2020
senior wrote:
tjlincoln wrote:
Duclair was non tendered I’m reading on Twitter - sounds like a good move to me he was only their leading G scorer and I’m sure Dorian and Smith will find another player who played for Smith in Pee Wee leagues somewhere to trade for.
Just when you think maybe, just maybe, the Sens are going to try and ice some kind of decent team, they do something this to save a couple of million dollars. Money they're going to end up having to spend on some former players contract to reach the floor. It's beginning to look more and more like we will looking at another high draft pick next season.
What in the in literal f*ck.
Even I wasn't keen on giving Duclair a long term deal with a big raise, but seriously a $1.65M qualifying offer rescinded? You qualify him and take him to arbitration for a short term deal or trade his rights. Goal scorers have value even as head cases (e.g. Evander Kane). Not qualifying him does not have a legitimate "normal" excuse. No cap issues, no contract limits.
This on top of the Ryan buyout and the high number of overagers ready to jump into the NHL in the last 2 drafts all point in one direction...
Belleville will not play this year. They are clearing roster spots. All the prospects in the AHL will be brought up to the NHL or loaned out. The team will field a roster well below the cap floor and get a fine and lose draft picks.
Why pay out for $50 million (plus $10 million on IR) in salaries to reach the cap floor of $60 million and only make $30 million in profit and still have to support the AHL team... when you can pay $40 million in salaries, pay a $5 million dollar fine for being below the cap floor and make $35 million in profit and save all that money on the AHL?
Overly cynical, but probably pretty close.
senior said
Oct 7, 2020
tjlincoln wrote:
Duclair was non tendered I’m reading on Twitter - sounds like a good move to me he was only their leading G scorer and I’m sure Dorian and Smith will find another player who played for Smith in Pee Wee leagues somewhere to trade for.
Just when you think maybe, just maybe, the Sens are going to try and ice some kind of decent team, they do something this to save a couple of million dollars. Money they're going to end up having to spend on some former players contract to reach the floor. It's beginning to look more and more like we will looking at another high draft pick next season.
tjlincoln said
Oct 7, 2020
tjlincoln wrote:
Agent Orange wrote:
There’s your boom or bust sniper. Big boy with a hammer.
Likely they reached for him as a result of the Murray trade.
Me and Pan both wanted JJPeterka the Munich forward before this guy. Buffalo trades up to take him right after Ottawa passes and now we get the comparison moving forward. Ottawa’s pick Jarventie was just described on NHL network as a 3rd liner. Probably coulda got him later in 2nd since he wasn’t on a lot of guys Top 100 prospects SMH
Wrong, saw him ranked 36th on Craig Button’s board.
tjlincoln said
Oct 7, 2020
Duclair was non tendered I’m reading on Twitter - sounds like a good move to me he was only their leading G scorer and I’m sure Dorian and Smith will find another player who played for Smith in Pee Wee leagues somewhere to trade for.
tjlincoln said
Oct 7, 2020
Agent Orange wrote:
tjlincoln wrote:
Spezzial-Delivery wrote:
Yeah at first I was kind of excited about Murray but... I dunno. It's hard to get excited about hockey these days I haven't watched a Sens game since March.
I thought Ottawa was full of Goalie prospects and they trade for Murray who I think is a 2 time Cup winner but lost his job because of poor play and they trade w Toronto and move down to draft ANOTHER Goalie in the 3rd. I’m not digging this draft after Stutzle and Sanderson. Seattle can’t get here soon enough so I can see Ronnie Francis screw up a draft
Murray is just a stop gap for Nilsson who is likely done. He and Hogberg will likely duel it out as 1A/1B for the next couple of years.
While they have a lot of lottery tickets there is no surefire winner and likely one is off to Seattle via the expansion draft.
I like Daccord, but I see him getting dealt to AZ for something. Gus still needs to show he can bounce back and Mandolese and Sogard are still a couple of years out.
Adding one more into the pipeline is a smart move especially as he has a spot in Europe and can marinate for a few years. August birthday (late) so the true judge for his draft position is going to be the upcoming season.
The late birthday thing seems to be a thing this year. Grabbing guys that barely qualify for the cutoff and bank on them exploding in the upcoming season.
Thx, I’m perplexed as to why Seattle wants an Ottawa goalie. Hopefully Seattle and Francis are smarter than wanting Murray or Hogberg.
Agent Orange said
Oct 7, 2020
tjlincoln wrote:
Spezzial-Delivery wrote:
Yeah at first I was kind of excited about Murray but... I dunno. It's hard to get excited about hockey these days I haven't watched a Sens game since March.
I thought Ottawa was full of Goalie prospects and they trade for Murray who I think is a 2 time Cup winner but lost his job because of poor play and they trade w Toronto and move down to draft ANOTHER Goalie in the 3rd. I’m not digging this draft after Stutzle and Sanderson. Seattle can’t get here soon enough so I can see Ronnie Francis screw up a draft
Murray is just a stop gap for Nilsson who is likely done. He and Hogberg will likely duel it out as 1A/1B for the next couple of years.
While they have a lot of lottery tickets there is no surefire winner and likely one is off to Seattle via the expansion draft.
I like Daccord, but I see him getting dealt to AZ for something. Gus still needs to show he can bounce back and Mandolese and Sogard are still a couple of years out.
Adding one more into the pipeline is a smart move especially as he has a spot in Europe and can marinate for a few years. August birthday (late) so the true judge for his draft position is going to be the upcoming season.
The late birthday thing seems to be a thing this year. Grabbing guys that barely qualify for the cutoff and bank on them exploding in the upcoming season.
Agent Orange said
Oct 7, 2020
Ryder Rolston at 155?
His dad played hockey in the NHL and NCAA bound. So that seems to be good enough these days.
Nope went to the Avs at 139 almost immediately after I post.
-- Edited by Agent Orange on Wednesday 7th of October 2020 05:09:02 PM
tjlincoln said
Oct 7, 2020
Spezzial-Delivery wrote:
Yeah at first I was kind of excited about Murray but... I dunno. It's hard to get excited about hockey these days I haven't watched a Sens game since March.
I thought Ottawa was full of Goalie prospects and they trade for Murray who I think is a 2 time Cup winner but lost his job because of poor play and they trade w Toronto and move down to draft ANOTHER Goalie in the 3rd. I’m not digging this draft after Stutzle and Sanderson. Seattle can’t get here soon enough so I can see Ronnie Francis screw up a draft
Spezzial-Delivery said
Oct 7, 2020
Yeah at first I was kind of excited about Murray but... I dunno. It's hard to get excited about hockey these days I haven't watched a Sens game since March.
Agent Orange said
Oct 7, 2020
What are the odds that the same people most vocally decrying the Sanderson-Kleven picks are the same ones that will randomly reminisce about the Phillips-ATrain tandem and question why the team doesn’t have a pairing like that anymore?
Agent Orange said
Oct 7, 2020
Disappointed to see both Mysak and Tuch go to the Habs. May they bust ever more.
TJ, stop feeding my sleeper picks to SJ.
tjlincoln said
Oct 7, 2020
Agent Orange wrote:
senior wrote:
So what if............. The Sens had gone off the board A bit and taken Quinn and Rossi? Quinn the goal scorer they need and Rossi the centreman they need who can also score goals. They have played together and have proven chemistry.
-- Edited by senior on Tuesday 6th of October 2020 11:45:42 PM
If Sanderson wasn’t such a fast riser and the NYI pick was in the mid-range, I suspect they may have opted to take Quinn at 5.
The second round and on is the time to find boom/bust goal scorers.
At the top of the second I could see them taking a guy like Gunler as a goal scorer and an area of need at RW. I hope they take Mysak or Peterka instead at 33.
Other interesting picks for later on would be Guschin, Nybek, Robins.
Agree AO, sure would of liked to of seen Gunler or Peterka or Mysak there at 33 Ottawa still needs a lot more talent up front.
Alex Trebek passed away this morning. Not sure, but announcing the Sens' 1st 2020 1st round pick might have been his last TV appearance. RIP Alex
If they overpay those 3 in that salary area this team will never in any you’re lifetimes be worth spit, just listened to several Pittsburgh shows and they are happy that Murray is gone. Appreciative of the 2 Cups but over the past 3 years couldn’t stay healthy or consistent and needed to be pushed to produce when he could get on the ice. He’s 26 but an old injured and not very motivated player in their opinion. “There’s always a sucker that Jim Rutherford finds for these guys who have won Cups” is what one host said. Gudbranson is one of the most overpaid and slowest Defenseman in the league and he was pilloried beyond belief in Vancouver because he can’t play Defense. lol, Murray at 6 will be a disaster and Tierney is a bottom 6 why pay that much? Jeez this is becoming beyond belief.
The Sens made Duclair an offer they knew he would never accept. They wanted him out.
Likely, but now you've just shown the other RFAs the way to get out of dodge. Has Dorion actually taken anyone to arbitration yet? Hoffman was on Murray's watch no?
But as much as I want to demonize the shady ways the team is being run, in doing the math they will meet the cap floor this year with minimal extensions to:
Tierney (4.5M AAV) - 1/2 years
C. Brown (4.1M/AAV) - 5 years
Murray (6M/AAV) - 3 years
and the rest of the RFAs between 0.875M-1M.
Comes out to 63M on the cap (52M salary)
That's with 12.45M in dead cap (6M actual salary) in Gaborik, Nilsson, the ghost of Bobby Ryan, and the ghost of Dion Phaneuf.
That's a thin line of cap in/cap out for when they try and trade away the extra bodies at the trade deadline this year.
Maybe Duclair just wanted out. Who could blame him?
Unless they are shedding as much as they can to go poaching or UFA shopping ( unlikely on both counts), this Duclair thing makes no sense to me. Unless there's something we don't know, its just seems stupid.
AO, you bring up great points though and on this I don’t think you are overly cynical. It’s the Melnyk way of doing business. Bettman backing this creep just shows how useless Bettman can be at times. Great points on the overagers too. I really thought they were going to weaponize cap space to take advantage of Cap strapped teams after releasing Ryan and try and really put a good team on the ice. Zaitsev and Zub don’t create a lot of confidence in me. Even though I’m not a fan of the Murray trade and Pittsburgh talk radio is very happy w the return because they’ve lost all confidence he could ever be any good in Pittsburgh again. I hope he does bounce back but that Zaitsev Zub combo all pops back up in my head.
-- Edited by tjlincoln on Wednesday 7th of October 2020 11:04:49 PM
-- Edited by tjlincoln on Wednesday 7th of October 2020 11:05:09 PM
"Big boy with a hammer."
You just know she said that.
What in the in literal f*ck.
Even I wasn't keen on giving Duclair a long term deal with a big raise, but seriously a $1.65M qualifying offer rescinded? You qualify him and take him to arbitration for a short term deal or trade his rights. Goal scorers have value even as head cases (e.g. Evander Kane). Not qualifying him does not have a legitimate "normal" excuse. No cap issues, no contract limits.
This on top of the Ryan buyout and the high number of overagers ready to jump into the NHL in the last 2 drafts all point in one direction...
Belleville will not play this year. They are clearing roster spots. All the prospects in the AHL will be brought up to the NHL or loaned out. The team will field a roster well below the cap floor and get a fine and lose draft picks.
Why pay out for $50 million (plus $10 million on IR) in salaries to reach the cap floor of $60 million and only make $30 million in profit and still have to support the AHL team... when you can pay $40 million in salaries, pay a $5 million dollar fine for being below the cap floor and make $35 million in profit and save all that money on the AHL?
Overly cynical, but probably pretty close.
Just when you think maybe, just maybe, the Sens are going to try and ice some kind of decent team, they do something this to save a couple of million dollars. Money they're going to end up having to spend on some former players contract to reach the floor. It's beginning to look more and more like we will looking at another high draft pick next season.
Wrong, saw him ranked 36th on Craig Button’s board.
Thx, I’m perplexed as to why Seattle wants an Ottawa goalie. Hopefully Seattle and Francis are smarter than wanting Murray or Hogberg.
Murray is just a stop gap for Nilsson who is likely done. He and Hogberg will likely duel it out as 1A/1B for the next couple of years.
While they have a lot of lottery tickets there is no surefire winner and likely one is off to Seattle via the expansion draft.
I like Daccord, but I see him getting dealt to AZ for something. Gus still needs to show he can bounce back and Mandolese and Sogard are still a couple of years out.
Adding one more into the pipeline is a smart move especially as he has a spot in Europe and can marinate for a few years. August birthday (late) so the true judge for his draft position is going to be the upcoming season.
The late birthday thing seems to be a thing this year. Grabbing guys that barely qualify for the cutoff and bank on them exploding in the upcoming season.
Ryder Rolston at 155?
His dad played hockey in the NHL and NCAA bound. So that seems to be good enough these days.
Nope went to the Avs at 139 almost immediately after I post.
-- Edited by Agent Orange on Wednesday 7th of October 2020 05:09:02 PM
I thought Ottawa was full of Goalie prospects and they trade for Murray who I think is a 2 time Cup winner but lost his job because of poor play and they trade w Toronto and move down to draft ANOTHER Goalie in the 3rd. I’m not digging this draft after Stutzle and Sanderson. Seattle can’t get here soon enough so I can see Ronnie Francis screw up a draft
TJ, stop feeding my sleeper picks to SJ.
Agree AO, sure would of liked to of seen Gunler or Peterka or Mysak there at 33 Ottawa still needs a lot more talent up front.